编者的话：数天前，在全球华人欢度春节，迎来新的一年之际，澳大利亚政府作出一个不同寻常的举动——吊销了一位知名华人富商的永居签证。
温馨提示: 本文为本报记者独家深度专访，中英文字数共计8300字左右。
按照一些澳大利亚媒体的说法，这位以侨领身份活跃在社交场合的华商涉嫌“干预”澳大利亚内政，澳安全情报局(ASIO)的一份文件概述了取消签证的理由。这位华人名叫黄向墨。
via 环球网
8日，他发表中英双语公开声明，指责澳方决定依据的是“莫须有”的猜测，“充满偏见、毫无依据”。其实，过去几年，因在澳公共事务中表现较为活跃，黄向墨曾经历过各种无端指责和炒作，他甚至将一家诬蔑他是间谍的媒体告上法庭。
但如今，澳政府何以如此决绝地对待这样一名商人？11日，《环球时报》记者专访黄向墨，听他亲述背后的隐情。
以下是专访实录：
GT: Were you instantly informed when you were denied your Australian permanent residency? What were you doing then? How does it affect you and your business?
环球时报：您第一时间就得知永久居留被拒了吗？当时正在做什么？这件事对您个人和企业分别造成了哪些影响？
"倘或我真有违反法律的行为，ASIO根本就不需要硬找个“莫须有”的借口了。"
Huang: I got the information after my lawyer in Australia received a notice from Australia's Department of Home Affairs. I was at my house in Hong Kong and I went to Thailand frequently for my new investment there. I moved from Hong Kong to Australia seven years ago and I traveled between the two places frequently to take care of my business. Like many Hong Kong businessmen in Australia, I am always "up in the air."
黄向墨：我是在我的澳大利亚律师收到澳大利亚内政部的通知后得知此事的。当时我在香港的家中，需常去泰国照料那边的新投资。7年前我是从香港移居澳大利亚的，频繁来往两地，都有生意要照料，与大多数在澳的香港商人一样，算是“航天员”。
The incident has had a huge impact on me and my family. Three generations of my family have lived in Australia for seven years. Apart from me, all those in the family are Australian citizens. The younger generation have studied, worked, married and had children there and just like other Chinese people in Australia, they have already been fully integrated. Australia is their home. More importantly, my granddaughter was born in Australia and she is learning to speak. She is now at an adorable age and I think about her frequently.
这件事对我个人和家庭的影响当然是十分巨大的。我们全家三代人已经移居澳大利亚7年，除了我，全家都是澳大利亚公民。我的孩子在那里读书、工作、成家、生子，与其他华裔一样，他们早已经完全融入，澳大利亚就是他们的家园。更为重要的是，我的外孙女是在澳大利亚出生的，正在牙牙学语，最是可爱的时候。我常常惦记她。
It also affects my business of course. Some partners without information on this may have some unnecessary worries and that is why I released a statement on February 8. Relevant documents from the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) clearly stated that I did not violate any laws in Australia. However, those reporters who claimed to have inside information from ASIO mentioned nothing about it. I have to tell my friends and the public about it. A more rational conclusion based on common sense would be: If I did break the law, ASIO would not have to resort to an excuse that is vague and groundless.
这一事件对我的生意也当然会有些影响，因为一些不知情的合作方可能会无谓地担心，这也是我为什么要在2月8日发出声明的原因。澳大利亚安全情报局(ASIO)的相关文件，明确表明我没有违反澳大利亚任何法律，但是，那些声称拿到了情报局内部信息的记者，却从不提及这个。这个信息，我必须告诉朋友们，告诉公众。当然，一个最为常识的判断就是，倘或我真有违反法律的行为，ASIO根本就不需要硬找个“莫须有”的借口了。
My business was affected less than my life. First, the business in Australia is only part of our global investment and my family is enhancing investment around the world. Second, my son has taken over the business in Australia since the second half of last year.
这一事件对生意的影响，没有对家庭生活影响那么大。一是因为澳大利亚的生意只是我生意的一部分，我们在全球都有投资，并且在不断加强这些投资;二是澳大利亚这摊生意，我自去年下半年就已经传给儿子了。
GT: The Australian side denied your citizenship "on character grounds." Australia's Department of Home Affairs seems to have concerns about the "reliability" of your answers given during naturalization interviews and also your communication with ASIO. How do you understand the vague expression of "on character grounds" and "reliability?"
环球时报：澳方给出的理由包括“性格原因”，澳内政部还担心，您在入籍面谈时的回答、以及与包括澳大利亚安全情报局(ASIO)等部门通信时提供的信息，缺乏“可靠性”。“性格原因”和“可靠性”这样模糊的表述该如何理解？
Huang: ASIO has never provided any clear statement. The wording in the documents sent to me have been vague. Neither I nor my lawyer understood what they mean and we don't have the chance to cross-examine them. There are only two reasons that are comparatively clearly stated. First, I was previously the chairman of the Australian Council for the Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China (ACPPRC) and I am currently chairman of the Oceanic Alliance of Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China (OAPPRC). Second, I have business and family ties in China. The two reasons are very ridiculous, as I have mentioned in my statement.
黄向墨：ASIO从未提供明确说明，在他们发给我的文档中，就是含糊其辞的，我不理解，我的律师也不理解，也从未有机会相互对质。仅有的相对明确的理由是两个：一个是我担任过澳大利亚中国和平统一促进会的会长，以及还担任着大洋洲中国和平统一促进联盟的主席;第二个是说我有商业关系及亲属关系在中国。这两个理由都是很荒诞的，我在声明里已经提及了。
GT: You have mentioned in your statement that according to ASIO, the key allegation is that you are committed to promoting the peaceful reunification of China as the current chairman of the OAPPRC and previous chairman of ACPPRC. What do you think is the logic of the Australian side and how do you respond? What have you done in promoting the reunification?
环球时报：您在声明中表示在ASIO 的相关文件里，最关键的是指责您担任大洋洲中国和平统一促进联盟主席、及此前担任澳大利亚中国和平统一促进会会长，致力于推动中国和平统一。那么澳方的逻辑何在？您如何回应？您过去在促统事业上，做了哪些事情？
Huang: I cannot figure out the logic of ASIO in regard to my efforts in promoting the reunification of China as threatening the national security of Australia.After all, my words and actions are fully in accordance with Australia's foreign policies and laws.
黄向墨：ASIO将我致力于推动中国和平统一的言行，等同于危害澳大利亚国家安全，这个里头的逻辑，我也搞不懂。毕竟，我的言行完全符合澳大利亚的外交政策及法律。
I previously thought that any country's intelligence agency, no matter how special it is, cannot go beyond the country's government nor should it act against the country's foreign policies in such an open manner. Australia established diplomatic relations with China in 1972 and has clearly stated a firm adherence to the one-China principle. Australia also has clear knowledge of the two countries' differences in political systems.
我原以为，任何一个国家的情报机构，即便地位再特殊，也不能凌驾于政府之上，也不应如此公开地与整个国家的外交政策对着干。澳大利亚自1972年就与中国建交了，十分清楚地阐明了自己坚守一个中国的立场，也十分清楚地知道两国之间在政治体制方面的区别。
If someone from the ASIO disagrees with Australia's foreign policy, I believe there's ample room for discussion and negotiation within the framework of Australia's political system. However, it certainly should not be an act from a system that has claimed to have democracy and rule of law to abuse power and force its dissidence on vulnerable Chinese. If you treat Chinese in such a manner today, you would do this to the Jews and Arabs tomorrow and that's the most dangerous thing.
如果ASIO的某些人不认同澳大利亚的外交政策，我相信澳大利亚的政治体制内应该有足够的空间可以讨论、协商，但如果只是利用手中的权力，将自己对现行政策的异议强加于弱势的华人身上，这肯定不是一个号称民主、法治的体系应该有的行为。今天你能如此对待华人，明天同样就能针对犹太人、针对阿拉伯人。这才是最为危险的。
via 网络
某些媒体蹊跷地展开协同抹黑，背后有一股力量......
GT: Sources reportedly said the decision to deny your citizenship and residency were made after two years' "background analysis" on you by Australia's security intelligence and immigration authorities. Are you aware of such a background analysis of you and is it suspected of infringing privacy?
环球时报：消息人士还称，拒绝您居留权和入籍的决定，是澳大利亚安全情报局及移民官员对您进行两年多的“背景分析”后作出的。您是否知道自己被有关部门进行过“背景分析”？这是否涉嫌侵害个人隐私权？
Huang: I have always thought that there would be a background analysis for all who apply for citizenship or residency. It's probably a common practice for any security authority in any country. No information should be leaked during the process, as required by law and to protect the privacy of the people involved. If that is not the case and the authorities leak the information to the media now, they could leak such information to a foreign government in the future. I believe such behavior certainly violates laws and regulations and even constitutes a crime.
黄向墨：我一直以为对所有申请居留及入籍的人，都会有背景分析，这大概是任何一个国家的安全部门都会去做的。无论是基于法律法规，或者当事人的隐私保护，都不应该泄露任何相应信息。倘非如此，涉案的官员今天可以泄露给媒体，明天就完全可能泄露给任何一个外国政府，我相信这一定违反了法律法规甚至构成了犯罪。
During the past years, some media have smeared me by claiming that they had inside information from the ASIO. However, on social media platforms such as Twitter, many Australians have questioned those reporters' access to inside information from ASIO, saying the unknown accessibility could be the biggest security concern. If the ASIO really cares about Australia's national security, it should have a thorough investigation about the sources of the media and investigate whether some of the reporters are suspected of serving foreign intelligence agencies apart from their actions of stealing classified information to gain attention and a spotlight.
几年来，部分媒体对我的抹黑，往往高调宣称是获得了情报局的内部消息。其实，在推特等社交媒体上，已有不少澳大利亚民众质疑记者是如何获取情报局内部情报的，认为这才是更大的安全隐患。ASIO如果真正是为了澳大利亚的国家安全考虑，首先应该彻底查查这些媒体的信息来源，查查某些记者除了靠窃取机密哗众取宠博取眼球之外，是否涉嫌为外国情报机构服务。
GT: For a long time, the Australian side has shown skepticism about your political donations. We understand the donations were requested by Australian's political parties and what was your major consideration when you agreed to donate?
环球时报：长期以来，澳方对您的政治捐款的怀疑声一直存在，我们得知这些捐款都是澳方政党主动请求的，那么您当初答应捐款的考虑主要是什么？
Huang: Since 2012, I offered political donations as asked for by Australia's political parties and politicians. But the so-called skepticisms did not start until 2016. What surprises me is that some media, which are competing fiercely with each other, are surprisingly on the same page. The collaboration is between print media and television, as well as between state media and media from the private sector. Together with echoing from some so-called think tank scholars, the situation is quite unusual. According to reports from independent media, not a few of those think tanks are connected with arms companies from a great power.
黄向墨：我因应政党和政治人物的请求，给予他们政治捐款，是从2012年开始的。但所谓的质疑，是从2016年开始的。令人惊叹的是，平日相互之间竞争激烈的某些媒体，却突然步调一致，既有平面媒体与电视媒体的协同，也有私营媒体与国营媒体的协同，加上一些所谓的智库学者的呼应。这是很蹊跷的。而据另外一些独立报道的揭露，这些智库不少与某大国的军火企业相关。
Therefore, to be more specific, it's not that the Australian side has skepticisms about my political donations, but some media are coordinately smearing me in an odd way. What should be noticed is that:
因此，您这个问题，确切地说，不是“澳方”对我的政治捐款有“怀疑”，而是某些媒体蹊跷地开展协同抹黑。值得注意的是：
First, those media do not necessarily represent the whole Australian media sector, and some articles from certain media do not necessarily represent the stance of all the reporters and editors working for the media. There are articles questioning such stories from time to time and I still firmly believe that most of the journalists and editors in Australia have a good work ethicand the capability to get the facts straight.
一、 这些媒体未必能代表澳大利亚整个媒体，甚至某家媒体上的某些报道也未必能代表这家媒体的所有编辑记者，反诘和反击他们言论的文章也时有所闻，我至今仍然坚信澳大利亚媒体的大部分编辑记者是有良好的职业操守和求证能力的;
Second, some reports might have created some noises and misled some people. But they could not represent the whole of public opinion and those who are keeping silent in their opinions. Some polls conducted by some think tanks also prove this.
二、 某些报道确实能扭曲舆论、起到噪声的作用，但决不能代表民意、代表澳大利亚“沉默的大多数”。一些智库机构所做的民意调查也都支持了这点。
As for my consideration for agreeing to donate, I admit it partly comes from the Chinese habit of treating other people in a nice manner and not accustomed to saying "no." But more importantly, I hope to promote Chinese people's legal involvement in politics.
至于我当初答应捐款时的考虑，我承认，其中当然有与人为善、不习惯“说不”的华人惯性，但更多的，是我希望能促进华人依法参政。
GT: Do you think the incident is merely an accident? Do other Chinese people in Australia face the same risk? Are there any such worries coming from your friends who are doing business in Australia?
环球时报：回想起来，您认为这件事是否只是个“意外”？其他的在澳华人是否也面临这种危险？您所认识的华商朋友有类似担忧吗？
Huang: It was quite unexpected for me. The two-year investigation of me also proved my innocence: They dug deep but found my words and deeds do not violate any Australian laws. What I did not expect is that a system that boasts democracy and rule of law would allow some people from its intelligence agency to punish a permanent resident with groundless accusations and provoke the country's foreign policy and international commitment in an open manner despite the fact that the resident has done nothing wrong.
黄向墨：这一事件，对我来说，确实是十分意外的。相关部门对我长达两年的背景调查，其实已经变成了一个给我澄清的过程：挖地三尺，一无所获，倒是确认了我的言行没有任何违反澳大利亚法律。“意外”的是，这样一个宣称民主、法治的体系，会放任情报机构的某些人用“莫须有”的罪名处罚一个毫无过错的永久居民，乃至公然挑衅外交政策与国际承诺。
The same risk will certainly fall on every Chinese, or anyone with other ethnic origins. When authorities can still get their way after exhausting every means and finding no evidence to prove their allegations, you can ask the question that if you do have some problem, no matter whether it is big or small, wouldn't that just supply a pretext for them to make an issue out of it? There's a Chinese proverb that says "you can always find excuses if you want to punish someone."
同样的风险，当然也会降落到任何一个华人、乃至其他族裔的任何人的头上。相关机构在对我罗掘穷尽、毫无证据的情况下，还能一意孤行，诸位请扪心自问，倘或你有任何一点问题，不论大小，那不正成为其予取予夺的借口吗？中国古话说的是：“欲加之罪，何患无辞”。
Overseas Chinese are quite a diverse group. They have diverse political ideas. There are different perceptions over the incident and on me. I understand this and I respect it. What should be noted is that, if words and acts that are in strict accordance with Australia's laws and foreign policy get punished, are there any standards of punishment? Who will decide the discretion of law enforcement? Who could be safe in such a situation?
海外华人是相当多元的，包括有着多元的政治理念。对于这个事件以及我本人，有不同的解读。对此，我不仅理解，也十分尊重。需要重视的是，如果与澳大利亚外交政策及法律完全一致的言行都会受罚，处罚还会有标准吗？谁来掌握这巨大的弹性执法？还有谁可能是安全的？
The risks are not just faced by Chinese but also other ethnic groups. The attacks and heckling focus on my closeness to China, but after all, China has a diplomatic relationship with Australia. It is the top trade partner, not a belligerent or hostile country to Australia. My closeness with China is in accordance with law, reasonable and rational, and has no difference with other ethnic groups' closeness to their home country. If Chinese are to be punished for their closeness with China, people from other ethnic groups could also be punished for their closeness with their own home country.
不仅华人从此不安全，其他族裔也会遭遇同样的风险。对我的攻击和诘难，聚焦于我亲近中国，但中国毕竟是澳大利亚的邦交国、是头号经贸伙伴，不是交战国、不是敌国;亲近中国不仅合法、而且合情合理，这与其他族裔的澳大利亚人亲近自己的祖籍国完全一样。今天，华人能因亲近中国而受罚，明天其他族裔的人也同样会因亲近自己的祖籍国而受罚。
Some Chinese might think the ASIO's anti-Communist needs are behind my case and it seems like as long as you are not involved or close to any "redness" you will be safe. However, how does supporting reunification relate to the color of one's political view? Since you are a Chinese, how could you defend yourself when other people are trying to get you "red?" The Australian government could establish diplomatic ties with the "Red China" and there are no anti-Communist legal articles or articles that set limitations against Communism, so closeness to a Communist party is never a mistake, nor a crime. Why should it be tolerated when some intelligence officer creates his own legal cause?
某些华人同胞可能认为这是ASIO推行“反共”的需要，似乎只要自己不染红、不沾红即可，但是，支持祖国和平统一与个人政治观点的颜色有什么关系？只要你身为炎黄子孙，当别人要将你“抹红”的时候你又如何自辩？更进一步要考虑的是，澳大利亚政府能以国家之名与“红色中国”建交，法律上也没有任何反共防共限共的条款，即便“亲共”也绝不是错、更不是罪，却为何可以容忍情报机构某些人建立法外之法、国中之国呢？
I am a businessman with no interest in political ideology. But I am also a Chinese who loves his ethnicity, his home country and also his new home where his offspring will live in the future. I hope to do my best to make Chinese better engaged with their new home and to construct a new home together with other ethnicities. That's the fundamental reason I encourage Chinese to be engaged in politics and why I do so myself. I have mentioned this more than once in my published articles and speeches, but some institutions and media turn a blind eye to this. They are selectively deaf and selectively choose to misread and misinterpret. So-called anti-Communism is merely an excuse to of their anti-China agenda.
我是一个商人，对政治信仰没有兴趣，但我是华人，热爱自己的族群、热爱自己的祖籍国、也热爱自己的子孙将在此生活下去的新家园。我希望能尽己所能推动华人同胞更好融入新家园，与其他族裔一同努力建设新家园，这就是我鼓励华人同胞政治参与且身体力行的根本原因，这在我的诸多文章中、诸多演讲中都一次次地被提及，但是，某些机构听不到、某些媒体听不到，他们是选择性地失聪，甚至选择性的误读误译，所谓的“反共”无非是他们用以排华的借口而已。
GT: How is the mainstream public opinion in Australia? Can you estimate how many support you? For a long time, the Australian media have been surprisingly united in smearing the image of Chinese people and hyping the "China threat." Why is this happening and can you reiterate your response to the attacks on you?
环球时报：这几天澳大利亚主流舆论如何？预估一下，支持您的占多大比例？长期以来，一些澳大利亚媒体在抹黑华人、渲染中国威胁方面出奇地统一，这是为什么？可否在此再次重申一下关于某些媒体对您攻击的回应？
Huang: As I mentioned earlier, some reports and certain media cannot represent mainstream public opinion in Australia. Since 2015, the show of some Australian media smearing Chinese has occurred for Season Six, and the current situation is the sixth season of the show. However, what is gratifying to me is that there are still a few articles that have refuted such smearing reports and issued a rational voice. Many friends from political, business and academic backgrounds have sent me greetings and sympathy.
黄向墨：前面已经谈了，某些报道、某些媒体不能代表澳大利亚的主流舆论。自2015年以来，部分澳媒对华人的抹黑攻击，已经上演了六季，当下的是第六季。但是，值得我欣慰的是，还是有相当多的文章，对此予以了批驳，发出了理性的声音;也有不少的政、商、学界朋友给我送来了问候与慰问。
Therefore, I firmly believe, and I also hope that Chinese compatriots, especially the Chinese media, will also recognize clearly that the mainstream of Australian society, including the Australian media, could not be represented by some reports or reporters. It's just we cannot be the "silent people" anymore and we should speak out, to let the world see Australia's real public opinion, and avoid the country's return to the White Australia policy and far-right populism.
因此，我自己坚信，也希望华人同胞、尤其是华文媒体也要认清，包括澳媒在内，澳大利亚社会的主流不是这几篇报道、这几个记者所能捆绑代表的。只是我们不能再做“哑裔”，要发出声音，让世界看到澳大利亚真正的舆论，避免这个国家走回白澳政策、走向极右的民粹主义。
这个国家有着 “巨婴” 的先天特性，它的成长需要时间
GT: What role have Chinese played in Australia's politics, economics and society in the past 200 years? Some people say that this is a watershed incident in Australia's perception of Chinese influence. Is it so serious?
环球时报：200年来，华人华侨在澳大利亚政治经济及社会中扮演着什么样的角色？有说法称这是澳大利亚在对待华人影响力方面的一个“分水岭事件”？是否有这么严重？
Huang: Chinese have come to Australia for at least 200 years. In 1818, Mai Shiying from Guangdong Province disembarked at Port Jackson and became one of the earliest recorded Chinese immigrants to Australia. The Chinese are some of the earliest builders of Australia. They live in harmony with the aborigines and worked with other ethnic groups from all over the world and have made a great contribution to building a prosperous, rich and harmonious Australia. In the 2016 demographics, the number of Chinese Australians exceeded 1.2 million, accounting for more than 5 percent of the total population.
黄向墨：华人来澳，至少已经200年。1818年，来自广东的麦世英在杰克逊港下船，成为有记载的最早一批来澳华人移民之一。华人是澳大利亚最早的建设者之一，与原住民和谐相处，与来自世界各地的其他族裔共同努力，为建设一个繁荣、富足、和谐的澳大利亚做出了巨大的贡献。在2016年的人口统计中，华裔澳大利亚人已超过120万,占人口总数超过5%。
Last year, more than 2,000 people from all walks of life in Australia and nearly 300 Chinese groups gathered in Sydney to commemorate the 200th anniversary of Chinese coming to Australia. Australia's prime minister, federal opposition leader and the governors of the states respectively sent a congratulatory letter to the commemorative meeting, embodying the closeness of Australian society in the form of a family portrait. I was honored to be the chairman of the conference. The response from all walks of life in Australia was very positive. The New South Wales Legislative Council also unanimously passed a motion to highly affirm the contribution of the Chinese to Australia for 200 years and highly appreciated the conference.
去年，澳大利亚各界2000多人、近300多个华人团体联合在悉尼隆重集会，纪念华人来澳200周年。联邦总理、联邦反对党领袖以及各州州长都分别为纪念大会发来了贺信，以“全家福”的方式体现了“全澳一家亲”。我很荣幸能担任大会主席。澳大利亚各界对这个大会的反应十分正面积极，新南威尔士州议会上议院还一致通过动议，对华人来澳200年的贡献予以高度肯定，对大会表示高度赞赏。
However, despite the hard work and gentle nature of the Chinese, they still suffered persecution under the White Australia Policy along with other non-European ethnic groups. This has become a stain that cannot be ignored in Australia's great history. Even in the shadow of the White Australia Policy, the few Chinese left behind have made tremendous contributions and even sacrifices for Australia. For example, in the arduous anti-fascist war, the Chinese, along with other Australian compatriots from other ethnicities, devoted their lives and dedicated everything to defending Australia.
但是，尽管华人勤奋刻苦、天性温和，却依然与其他非欧裔族群一起，遭遇过“白澳政策”的迫害，这成为澳大利亚伟大历史上不可忽视的污点。即便在“白澳政策”的阴影下，所剩不多的华人，依然为澳大利亚做出了巨大的贡献乃至牺牲。比如，在艰苦卓绝的反法西斯战争中，华人与其他族裔的澳大利亚同胞一道，抛头颅、洒热血，为捍卫澳大利亚奉献了自己的一切。
The official implementation of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975 proclaimed that all Australians, regardless of color or ethnicity, enjoyed the same basic rights and opportunities and declared an end to the White Australia Policy. This law, along with the Constitution, has become the foundation of contemporary Australia. For more than 40 years since the implementation of the act, Australia has become a home for multiculturalism and ethnic harmony through the joint efforts of ethnic groups including Chinese.
1975 年《反种族歧视法》正式实施，宣示所有澳大利亚人，不论其肤色种族一律平等，享有同样的基本权利与机会，宣告“白澳政策”终结。这部法律与宪法一道，成为当代澳大利亚的立国之本。《反种族歧视法》实施40多年来，在包括华人在内的各族裔的共同努力下，澳大利亚成为推行多元文化、实现族群和谐的家园。
However, in recent years, there have been some noises in Australia, and racism and populism have shown signs of rising.
但是，近年来，澳大利亚也出现了一些噪声，种族主义与民粹主义有抬头的迹象。
As for my incident, I think it still takes time to observe and it's too early to say whether it will become a watershed incident. After all, the relevant legal procedures, although long, are still in progress. I still believe in law and justice.
至于我的这一事件，是否会成为澳大利亚在对待华人影响力方面的一个“分水岭事件”，我觉得尚需观察，现在言之过早。毕竟，相关的法律程序虽然漫长，但还在进行当中。我还是相信法律、相信正义。
GT: Some media say you are the victim of party political competition. Do you agree?
环球时报：有媒体认为您成了党争的牺牲品？您认同吗？
Huang: Although I am familiar with many Australian politicians, I am only a donor, a person outside the threshold, who is not interested in the gaming inside or between political parties. My donations were made at the request of political parties and politicians. They raised donations according to the law. I donated according to the law. Except for a parliament member who suddenly returned money after accepting donations for a long time, all my political donations were calmly accepted by them. This also shows that they have enough confidence in the legitimacy of these donations. Otherwise they should have been refunded. I am still very pleased with this.
黄向墨：虽然我与不少澳大利亚政界人士都比较熟悉，但我只是一个捐款者，一个门槛外的人，对政党内部、政党之间的博弈不了解，也没有兴趣。我的捐款，都是应政党和政治人物的要求而捐献的，他们依法募捐，我依法捐赠，除了一位议员在接受捐款很长时间后突然退回之外，我的所有政治捐款都被他们坦然接受，这也说明，他们对这些捐款的合法性有足够的自信，否则，他们早该退还的。对此，我还是感到欣慰的。(《澳大利亚人报》12日称，澳两大政党已发表声明，表示不会向黄向墨退回捐款——编者注)
Therefore, to be honest, I simply don't know whether I am a victim of party struggle. This should be analyzed and interpreted by experts who have a deeper understanding of Australian politics and revealed over time. However, I estimate that behind some media's bizarre collaborative reports and bold claims of obtaining intelligence secrets that should not be obtained, there seems to be some strange power operating in a dark place outside the law. It will take time to gradually reveal the secret. I am confident that some organizations in Australia will need to apologize to me when the day of truth comes.
因此，说实话，我根本就不知道我自己是否党争的牺牲品，这应该由对澳大利亚政治有更深了解的专家来分析解读，也更应该由时间来展现。但是，我估计，在某些媒体能够进行离奇的协同报道、能够大胆地宣称自己获得了不该获得的情报机密的背后，似乎有某种奇怪的力量，在法律之外的暗黑之地运行。这肯定需要时间才能逐步揭秘，我有信心，当那天真相大白之日，澳大利亚某些机构需要对我说声抱歉的。
GT: What do you think is the root cause of stumbling China-Australian relations in recent years? After living in Australia for a long time, how do you think China-Australia relations could break through barriers and get on the right track?
环球时报：中澳关系这些年来总是“磕磕绊绊”，您认为根本原因是什么？在澳生活多年，您认为如何才能让中澳关系突破藩篱，走上正轨？
Huang: I am not an expert in international relations, but I have lived in Australia for many years and I have some rough ideas about it. China-Australia relations have always stumbled over the years. I think the root cause is that in a new era of international relations, Australia has not found a position that best meets Australia's national interest.
黄向墨：我不是国际关系专家，但在澳大利亚生活多年，自己对此也有些粗浅的想法。中澳关系这些年来总是“磕磕绊绊”，我认为根本原因是在新的国际关系下，澳大利亚还没有找到最能符合澳大利亚国家利益的定位。
The history of Australia has determined the innate characteristics of a giant baby. This is an objective fact and it does not mean Australia has to feel inferior. The growth of a giant baby takes time, and Australia still has a long way to go. I fully understand this. Australia is a beautiful country. The Chinese are one of the earliest builders of this country and a part of this country that cannot be separated.
澳大利亚的历史，决定了其有着“巨婴”的先天特性，这是客观事实，不必自卑。“巨婴”的成长需要时间，澳大利亚还有很长的路要走，我对此完全理解。澳大利亚是个美丽的国家，华人是这个国家的最早建设者之一，是这个国家无法割裂的一部分。
My family and I moved from Hong Kong to Australia not only because we like the beautiful scenery and simple folk customs, but also because it is a home that has integrated the Chinese blood. In the past seven years, I have made many friends of different ethnicities here. The people here are very friendly and kind. The anti-China group is only a very small handful of people.
我和我的家庭当初从香港移居到此，不仅喜欢这里的美丽风景与淳朴民风，也因为这里本就是融入了华人血脉的家园。7年来，我在这里结交了不同族裔的很多朋友，这里的人民是非常友好和善的，反华排华仅仅是极少数。
文字：环球网；环球时报英文版
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